It doesnt mention sin there. Just like that Scripture includes things within it that are not necessarily scientifically accurate, scriptures without error. But here Strongs says brother but that could also mean half brother, right? And again, in Sirach chapter 18, I think its verse 17 in the Septuagint uses this same Greek word, but in the masculine to refer to man being full of grace as [inaudible 01:21:46] and obviously Trent and I would agree that it doesnt mean that way. At what point does Marion devotion or veneration turn into idolatry? So my quick mini rebuttal. You can finish your thought, if you want real quick, Steve. And again, scripture states, Because Jesus is God is why he would not inherit sin like Mary did, because Mary is not God, unless Trent is going in that direction, which I dont think it is. Okay. Hallow.com/mattfred, click the link in the description below. Well start with you, Steve. So we see here that messianic Psalms are often applied to Jesus in non-literal ways. I run morning podcasts here on locals. I didnt talk about sister-in-law. On the signing, Christie pointed out that one reason for joining the team was "basically doing Michael (Clemons) a favour" as a former college teammate and that it was tentatively for one game. He became sinner. Well, a lot to cover here. No. In fact, Protestants believe in many doctrines that are not found in scripture like their 66 book cannon of scripture where that public revelation ended in the first century. Can you repeat the question real quick? No, it doesnt. If Luke was communicating Jesus was Marys only child, he wouldve used the Greek word [foreign language 00:04:55] translated only begotten, rather than [foreign language 00:04:57] like he did elsewhere in his gospel, such as in Luke 7:12, 8:42 and 9:38.And in John 3:16, where Jesus is the only begotten son of God, meaning the only one. Okay. Okay. He offered them in the debate. So whenever you want to begin, I will click the 10 minute button. In that day, you will surely die. Which he eventually did. He mentioned about the Septuagint. And I showed counter examples to that in each of those cases. And they talks about how they offered cakes on alters to Mary. In fact, Jesus called the Pharisees a brood of vipers, and John Bergsma has provided evidence in his book Jesus and the Dead Sea Scrolls that John belonged to an Essene sect at Qumran, whose members embraced a wider canon than the one Christie is defending. Now Steve mentioned and many other Protestants allude to Matthew 1:24-25, which says When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him. The last one to be accepted was the bodily assumption of Mary. They would be sons from another marriage. Themissionof Apologetics 315 is to provide educational resources for the defense of the Christian faith, with the goal of strengthening the faith of believers and engaging the questions and challenges of other worldviews. What about after the apostolic age? And then hopefully, in my next turn, Ill be able to address some of the other arguments that Steve has raised. It talks about the universality of sin, like in Romans 3:23, All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. But Paul is talking about the universality of personal sin between Jews and non-Jews. Yeah, no, Im grateful for Steve to take part in this. We are going to be moving into a time of cross-examination where each debater will get 10 minutes each. Well, the kinsfolk, you can have relatives that dont know very much about you or misunderstand you. You got five minutes, right? When Mary said, I know not man, in Luke 1:34, does this indicate a vow of perpetual virginity? Luke 2:7, Steve said, Well, look. Thats because they quoted primarily from the Septuagint, or the Greek Old Testament. And more importantly, thats not what we are debating. Sure. Primary meaning of the word adelphos can either refer to having the same biological mother or father. When Isaiah prophecy states that the virgin will bear a son, it is not implying her virginal integrity remained intact after his birth, nor that her virginity would extend throughout her entire life, but only to stress that the Messiahs birth would be supernatural and that Jesus was divine. So just a historical note for everybody watching. I mean, to quote Jimmy Akin, when he was asked, Did all the early church fathers agree? He says, Boy, did they not all agree? So there was a lot that the early church disagreed on and there was things that they agreed on, things that Trent would agree on and theres things that they agreed on that I would actually believe in. In fact, as Baptist scholar Lee Mcdonald points out, the book of Malachi only implores its listeners to remember the law of Moses, which would be strange if there were a fixed set of writings established by Ezra called the prophets at this time. According to one commentary Marys song like Hannahs declares that security and significance are found in a God who would care about the broken and poor enough to give himself to them. He might redeem or rescue from bondage those who were under the law because we, which includes Mary, have redemption, the forgiveness of sins, Colossians 1:14. He was a key contributor in the Bills comeback win against the Houston Oilers, in which Buffalo rallied from a 32-point deficit[2] to complete the largest comeback victory in NFL history. As far as adelphos, I dont have a problem with the word adelphos, but my question is, why would you abandon its primary meaning for another meaning when it doesnt demand it? I just want to make sure. They were both Catholic. Sure. Welcome to The Counsel of Trent Podcast, a production of Catholic Answers. The first is if you are watching right now and you are not yet subscribed to this YouTube channel, click subscribe, click the bell button. So thank you very much both you, God bless you, and stay safe out there. Christie, 47, played for the Bills from 1992 to 2000. Does it say that every single human being without exception has committed a sin? H. Those are both problematic. That would be one. Okay. As the Protestant scholar J.N.D. So youre going to agree it does not deny Mary was assumed into heaven? So yeah, this is awesome. As far as Jesus brothers and sisters, I probably have studied that more than anything else and that would probably be the hardest for me to accept or maybe Mary being sinless because I mean, Trent, you got a seven year old, its like is as good as a kid as he is based on who his parents are. I think it will be. And if you take a look at the origin of all three of these dogmas, they all come from either nastic like text or apocryphal literature or [inaudible 01:29:53] literature, like the Protoevangelium of James and elsewhere. He would end up playing two years for the Buccaneers. Well, oh, can I have a [inaudible 01:22:11]. Yes, and I also have a video about Protestant inconsistent use of typology where Protestants have no problem even seeing very rough connections, typologically, to Jesus in the Old Testament, but then apply a much harsher standard when those same typological connections or better ones show Mary in the Old Testament. Jesus is never referred to as a preemptive savior, but as a redeeming, delivering savior, which includes redeeming and delivering Mary from her sins. Can a person with a human nature die even if they are free from sin? Get your complimentary mortgage payment estimate* Apply Now. Matthew was simply not concerned with telling us what did happen after Jesus was born. Therefore when Mark 6:3 refers to Jesus brothers and sisters not honoring him, we know this refers to Jesus younger half siblings. Probably not like any other piece of wood. When Ive seen people in the chat say things like, Wouldnt you make your mother perfect? I dont like that argument. And Steve, stick around because Ive got one final question for both of you, but I wanted to say two things before I do that. There are a lot of great resources at catholic.com. Lutheran Calvin, I would expect that. Good day, Steve. Landlord. So a child that age, you think its realistic that in the condition that they were brought up, that Mary could have never committed a sin especially as a child? Christiaan Kappes. Should it be included in the Old Testament canon? Also the Greek word for brother, its not always you to represent full brothers. When it comes to ancient Jewish authors, Christians shouldnt be con-cerned if they, like most Jews today, didnt believe the deuterocanonical books were Scripture. Sounds like youre posing the question to you, Steve. Yeah, no, Steve, if you want to give me the links to those over email, Ill be sure to put them in the description below so people can easily find them. And again, as a Roman Catholic, I would expect them to because their issue is not about Mary. 2022 Defenders Media All Rights Reserved, Apologetics315 is a ministry of Defenders Media, 501(c)(3) a non-profit organization. The point I want to raise there is that adelphi has the same semantic range as adelphos. It has nothing to do with Mary being the ark. Discover Geoffrey Stephen "Steve" Christie 's Biography, Age, Height, Physical Stats, Dating/Affairs, Family and career updates. and so this may not satisfy Trents answer and he might smirk a little bit about that, but Id say probably the first theologian to agree with me is the Apostle Paul. So it would-. Reply to this thread. Those that have been infallibly defined to be part of divine revelation. They also allude to events and stories contained in these texts. Thank you very much, Steve. [inaudible 01:23:43] This comes from supporter, Matt. Matthew 18:17 says, Jesus says, If a person who sins against you refuses to listen to you or two or three witnesses, tell it to the church. And it seems to envision the church as having some kind of authoritative structure and not simply as the invisible bond between all believers. I would probably enjoy Clement of Rome, even though 1 Clement wasnt written by an individual, but rather there was a poly group of bishops in 1 Clement. Download it once and read it on your Kindle device, PC, phones or tablets. Ravi Zacharias has long been recognized as one of the most respected of Christian apologists. He has authored over 170+ books.Andrews is the Chief Translator of the Updated American Standard Version (UASV). In week 9 vs. the New York Jets, Christie went 3 for 4 on field-goal attempts (20, 29, & 34 yards). I dont think people at the time would call them Catholic. So you can use the app for three months before deciding whether its worth your time and money. We wouldnt expect it. In his recent book Why Protestant Bibles Are Smaller, Protestant apologist Steve Christie claims that all Christians should accept the Protestant Old Testament canon and reject the deuterocanonical books of Judith, Tobit, Baruch, Wisdom, Sirach, 1and 2 Maccabees, and portions of Daniel and Esther. In Super Bowl XXVIII, Christie set a Super Bowl record by kicking a 54-yard field goal. And I can honestly say the same thing about Mary especially with the oppression of Rome and the Jews especially after Jesus was born.
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